Talk:Bretonnia

Second to the Empire

Fair cop about removing the "amongst human realms" part, but as it stands the sentence doesn't quite make sense. Second to the Empire how? Could I add "in political and military clout" or even just "greatness" or "prestige"? It's not, for instance, second in technology or naval size or number of knights.

Hmm, The Empire is larger and presumably more populous. It has four large cities (Altdorf, Nuln, Middenheim and Talabheim) besides an uncertain number of large and smaller towns. On the technology front the Empire has blackpowder guns and cannons. It might have fewer knights (IMHO The Empire has more knights than Bretonnia on account of its size and population, but they are certainly not so well-trained = no special classes/abilities of knights) but the imperial army is simply better possessing a large variety of infantry.

The Bretonnian navy is assuredly larger but that's because it has a larger coastal area to protect. The Imperial navy has a smaller area to protect and the main focus of the Empire is its army. I know that in Man O War the Bretonnian warships were true ships of the line with lots of cannons. That's one of the contradictions of the setting: they refuse to have any cannons in the army but then have lots of guns in the navy? That does not compute.

If you own the novels (or the collected editions) of Malus Darkblade read them carefully: the Bretonnian ships are large cogs armed with trebuchets and have a more mediaeval design. Of course to choose between a novel and a side game is dangerous but notice that the production of large numbers of cannons would require large foundries with lots of workers together with mines of coal, roads, food supply (i.e.: cities and industry). Notice that all of this is just my personal opinion. Aehren 10:36, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

That all seems accurate, and I agree. But note that because of their hang-up on honour, it's technologically inferior to Tilea and Estalia and thus not second in that sense. Since it is so rural it might arguably have a smaller population than the urbanised lesser state as well. GW does go on about it being 'second best' a lot, but what I presume they mean by that is the second greatest military force and possibly the second wealthiest as a nation. Just plain "second" implies some objective system of judging and ranking nations and the foresight to do so.

Basically I'm just quibbling words. Should we put "greatness" into the old line and call it a day?

I suppose its up to you guys how you want to solve the issue, but the point is that a clear difference needs to be shown between the Empire and Bretonnia, In simple terms you could refer to Bretonnia being a Fuedal State, based around Medieval Europe, while the Empire is at a later point, more around the time of Queen Elizabeth and the age of "explorers". In my opinion, comparing the Size and "Greatness" of the two, isnt as important as clearly distinguishing the differences. Lokter Tarvitz 10:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)